Episode 8: Alexei Moon Casselle

In this episode of Creativity on Tap, host Frank Sentwali sits down with Alexei "Crescent Moon" Casselle, a musician and educator born and raised in Minneapolis. Alexei discusses his roots in the Twin Cities hip-hop scene and his journey as a performer, world traveler, and now educator. Known for his work with groups like Kill the Vultures, Roma di Luna, Big Trouble, and Mixed Blood Majority, Alexei reflects on how creativity has shaped his life. Now a secondary English teacher, he shares how his experiences in music influence his approach to education, blending art and learning to inspire the next generation. Don’t miss this deep dive into the intersection of hip-hop, community, and teaching.

About Alexei
Alexei Moon Casselle AKACrescent Moon is a musician and educator born and raised in Minneapolis. Casselle came up in the Twin Cities hip hop community in the mid-1990s inspiring him to join bands, record music, and play shows around the world. With over twenty albums in his discography of affiliated groups ranging from hip hop to Americana/roots music, Crescent Moon has always kept a core foundation of lyrics and rhythm in his creative DNA. He is currently a secondary English Language Arts teacher in the Twin Cities metro area.

About Creativity on Tap and COMPAS
Creativity on Tap is produced by COMPAS, a nonprofit that makes creativity accessible to all Minnesotans by providing participatory creative experiences. In each episode, Creativity on Tap brings together educators, entrepreneurs, elected officials, parents, and other community leaders to discuss creativity and answer the question: What is creativity, and how can it solve the unique challenges facing today's world?

You'll find Creativity on Tap anywhere you get your podcasts, in addition to its webpage.

Creativity On Tap is part of Creativity Saves the World, a year-long initiative led by COMPAS to explore, celebrate, and emphasize the pivotal role creativity can and must play in shaping a world that prioritizes equity, justice, and inclusivity.

Theme music, "Krank It," was produced by COMPAS Teaching Artist Bionik.

#COMPASCreates #CreativitySavesTheWorld #CreativityIsForEveryone

Transcript

Creativity on Tap - Alexei Audio

Welcome to Creativity on Tap. My name is Frank Santuoli. Creativity on Tap is a series of conversations produced by Compass about the value and importance of creativity.

This year Compass turns 50. That's a half a century of putting creativity into the hands of millions of Minnesotans. We are working really hard to ensure we'll be doing this for 50 more years.

Creativity on Tap is part of Creativity Saves the World, a year-long initiative led by Compass to explore the role creativity can and must play in solving the unique challenges of this era. Our guest this week is Alexi Moon Cassell, aka Crescent Moon. Alexi is a musician and educator born and raised in Minneapolis.

He came up in the Twin Cities hip-hop community in the mid-1990s, which inspired him to join bands, record music, and play shows around the world. With over 20 albums in his discography of affiliated groups ranging from hip-hop to Americana roots music, Crescent Moon has always kept a core foundation of lyrics and rhythm in his creative DNA. He is currently a secondary English language arts teacher in the Twin Cities metro area.

And for those of you who are less familiar with Alexi, Alexi has had the chance to perform with acts such as Atmosphere, Idea and Abilities, Odd Jobs, His Own Projects Kill the Vultures, Crescent Moon is in Big Trouble, Roma de Luna, and Mixed Blood Majority. Yes, I'm reading off of that. And so Alexi, first thing I got to ask you is, how do you actually pronounce your last name? I've said Cassell, Cassell.

How is your last name pronounced? It is Cassell. Yeah. Of course, we would relate that to basketball, right? Sam Cassell.

Well, welcome to Creativity on Tap, man. It is great to have you here, brother. Thanks for having me, man.

I really appreciate that. Yes. So we got to start by letting the people know a little bit about your origin story as a young man in music and art and production.

So many things. Tell us, how did you come from being a youngster listening to music to now an arts educator, an educator, a musician, a performer, a world traveler? How did we get here? Man, I think it started with just listening to hip hop. I mean, I listened to all kinds of music, but for some reason, it was rap music that I just fell in love with.

And I had enough friends who were into it as well. And so we kind of had a little circle of friends just based on our love of hip hop music. And then I started doing a little research.

I learned it's not just this entertainment thing. It's actually come from a wider culture. And then I started learning about, oh, OK, we actually have that here in Minnesota.

Because at the time, mid-'90s, it was kind of like, oh, if you're not from New York or LA, then can you even really be a part of this? That was my question. I didn't know that you could honestly participate in the culture from Minneapolis. And then come to find out, like, oh, yeah, for sure.

There's stuff going on all around me that I'm just tapping into. And so it was about the time that I started high school, where I started just flirting with writing my own songs, writing my own verses, and getting the nerve to go on stage, whether at open mics or just doing little house party shows, stuff like that. And it just kind of took off from there.

So I think it was a combination of just realizing that, again, I could participate in this culture that started in the Bronx, but obviously has roots and connections globally. And realizing that there was a network around me, there was a community, a vibrant community that was already thriving. So it was pretty mind-blowing from a 15-, 16-year-old realizing that not only can I start to explore my own individual creativity and outlets, but realizing that, oh, there's this whole kind of world right in my backyard that I can go to a show and see what other cats my age and a big brother age to me that are doing.

And, yeah, it just felt like this is accessible to me. There's a pathway forward. There's stages that I can get on.

There's a pathway to release my own music and writing stuff like that, collaborating with folks. So it was just a really exciting moment in my life. Yeah.

So I'd be remiss if I didn't ask, you talked about kind of the mid-'90s and not really being sure what was hip-hop in the Twin Cities, for example. And you said kind of a big brother era. Who were some of the big brothers to you when you first found your way into freestyle sessions and cyphers and studios, sitting in? Because if you're like most of us who came up in hip-hop, very few of us ever started off just grabbing the mic.

It was more kind of you're around other people who do it, and you kind of slowly find your way. And I saw in one of the articles you had mentioned the first time that you went to and that you got on an open mic at your school and that having to find that fearlessness in you. So who were some of the big brothers of Twin Cities hip-hop for you in that time? Yeah.

So I think that, again, like 95, 96, that I've been like kind of freshman and sophomore year was when it was really first starting to take hold. And I went to South High for those years. And I remember, like you said, there was lunchroom cyphers going on.

And at first, I'm just kind of on the outskirts. I'm nowhere near confident enough to jump in at that point. So I'm just kind of observing, taking it all in.

But there was cats like this dude, Brownchild. His name is Quincy Blue, and unfortunately, he's no longer with us. But he was a really big inspiration to me because he was actually, he was my age.

We're in the same grade and everything. And he was a really dope, just he could just freestyle for days, really clean. And then this dude, Toro, and they were part of this group, Verbal Assassins.

So they were, yeah, I think they had a little tape out. They were doing some shows. And then my guys, Big Zach, Zach Combs from Cancer.

I think he was a senior at South just as I was getting there. But he definitely took me under his wing a bit. Some of my first recordings were on Cancer Tapes.

They went by Cancer Troop at that point, but Cancer Tapes. And then going to shows, yeah, Headshots was pretty big. So it was Atmosphere, Beyond, Namu Sab, Full Circle, Los Nativos, Abstract Pack, some of the Northside cats, Micronauts.

Then you have Buddha Tide, DJ Stage One. And that was just like, it was just an embarrassment of riches in terms of the number of people who were really dedicated to doing it. The fact that damn near every week you could find a spot where any number of these cats and more are doing shows.

That was mind blowing for a teenager to be able to go. First of all, just to be able to go to a show, not being 18 yet or not being 21 even. That's huge.

We can touch on that later. I don't know how much of a thing that is today for our kids that are not that age yet. But just having access to those spaces, to see the shows, again, just being at the show, even if I was still working my way up to actually let me do a set, let me perform my own songs or whatever.

But just to be there to watch. I never forget how the folks who were doing it treated me too, because that's the thing. I remember working up the courage to interact with some of these artists after the show or before the show.

They could have easily just kind of been like, buzz off, man. You're killing my vibe or whatever. It was never that.

It was always love. It was always like, thanks for coming to the show. Thanks for the support.

Man, I'll never forget DJ Stage One specifically. He didn't stay that far from me, I found out. He was selling mixtapes.

I would order straight up custom mixtapes. I think to you and me, we know what that is. But to try to explain that to someone who is not from our era, it's mind blowing.

Because think about it. You're like, okay, so someone went home with two turntables and a mixer, just one fluid nonstop mix filled up two sides of a 60 or 90 minute tape, and then brought it back to me as a cassette tape. The amount of time and effort that went into that one small act.

Again, it was just, man, I felt that. I was moved by that. Just to be able to, again, get something that was so custom, so handmade from artists that I was looking up to was really, really meant a lot to me.

Yeah. One of the reasons why I asked that question is because there's always been these eras in Twin Cities hip hop. I always wonder what would have happened if we would have had the organizational capacity that they had on the coast or even down south, like when the south came up in hip hop.

All of those artists seem to be so organizationally bonded. I think up until Rhymesayers for a lot of local artists, there was never really a hub here. That came in generation two, because generation one was IRM with Truth Maze and Kelsey.

You're probably too young to remember the Twin Cities Breakers and all of those guys. They were my age. I remember being 14 years old performing at The Loft in a rap contest.

Truth Maze was the host. He was the celebrity host of this rap contest at Jimmy Lee when I was in the eighth grade, ninth grade or whatever. In my mind, I'm like, man, this dude's got an album that is being circulated in moms and pops in other countries.

That was huge in, I guess we're talking about 87, 88. Then I went away to college in 91. When I came back from Southwest State University, I came back in mid 94.

It really took another year or so before I got back into the Twin Cities hip hop scene and culture. There was this whole new generation. You talk about Abstract Pack, which started in the early 90s.

I was with a group called H2O. We were all out of St. Paul Central. H2O, Abstract, DMG, who went down with rap a lot.

We were all out of the same school. When I came back from college, there was a whole new era. That's when Mikey and I had formed Idea and Abilities and Atmosphere.

Correct me if I'm wrong, isn't Slug from the Southside? Yeah, he is. Yeah, so that was- He went to Washburn. Him and his siblings all went to Washburn.

Yeah, and I had never heard of any Southside rappers. It was Northside and St. Paul and that was it. All of a sudden, the Southside had a movement.

I just think that's beautiful that the way hip hop gave life and purpose and vehicle for so many youth in the 90s and in the Twin Cities created these platforms. You talked about venues, the library, and Dinky Towner, which shout outs to the Dinky Towner, allowing 18 and up shows. Shout outs to First Ave, all ages matinees and giving out a billion comp tickets to make sure people were there for them and not being focused on the money, but the curating of the art.

I still have some of those comp tickets. Put away as keepsakes. Yeah, they were just papering the city with those things because, like you said, they just wanted bodies in the door, which was dope.

Right, because they were curating artists and creating a following. I have to ask you, we talked a little bit about your foray into hip hop. Were you writing before then, or how has creativity shown up in your early years before you met stages and opportunities to perform? Were you always writing? Were you always intellectual like that, or did writing come when you met hip hop? Yeah, it's a good question.

One thing before I forget with the venues, another thing that I don't think kids today should take for granted some of the venue space that they have access to, and you would be able to speak to this better than I could, but I do remember a time when it was not easy for a hip hop show or hip hop act to play a venue in the Twin Cities. It was a very risque thing where a lot of venue owners or promoters or whatever were scared to do it. It's exactly how it sounds, if I'm not mistaken, where folks were just kind of like, yeah, I don't know if we want that kind of music to bring that kind of crowd.

I do remember some of those early shows that I was getting to see as a high school kid. There was a spot called the Mighty Fine Cafe, which I believe is now Erte over in northeast, but it's across from 331 Club. We're seeing some of these acts that now they're talked about like legends, but I'm like, tell me why then these legends are having to play basically a cafe after hours.

It's like we were still having to find warehouse space or someone's house party. It was kind of rare for established venues to be like, oh yeah, for sure have a hip hop show here. It's just something that I'm like, because hip hop is so big now and everywhere that it might be hard to believe that it wasn't that long ago that a lot of venues were not really trying to have a rap show at their venue.

Not just venues, but not to cut you off, not just venues. We're going to talk about this a little bit later, but education. Try in the mid-90s going into an institution of education saying you'd like to do a workshop on hip hop or rap music.

You weren't going to get very far. We'll bring that up a little bit later. Also, I remember when Travitron in the hip hop shop was the only rap music you would hear ever.

Now we're getting into the early to mid-80s, but Friday nights for one hour on KMOJ was the only rap music you would hear. That was the only thing that if you were really moved by the music and the craft would inspire you to go seek out albums. I remember I had to sneak Ice-T's Power album into my house because my dad wasn't having that.

That stuff was contraband for sure. Back to the writing origin. I remember having a love for creative writing and poetry from a pretty young age.

I'm trying to remember. I started writing short stories or nonsensical just to get my creative ideas on a page. I probably started doing that when I was in maybe sixth grade.

I attribute that to one teacher specifically, my sixth grade teacher, my homeroom teacher. I actually just reconnected with her. She's no longer teaching, but still does work within the realm of education.

It was cool to be able to tell her, hey, I really credit you with giving me that space to be creative and put that on a page. I'm just writing these goofy stories and just whatever floats my boat. Then it turned into, I'd say eighth grade, I was starting to write more poetry.

Some of that was more introspective and trying to really make sense of the world and my identity and everything like that. It was perfect timing to when I was really getting into hip-hop music and fell in love with the writing. The combination of the music, but then the writing that went over the music or there was intertwined with it.

I was like ninth grade, 10th grade, that's pretty much all I was doing. I just wrote, I just filled notebooks and my grades suffered because of it. It looked like I was taking notes in class, but I was really just writing rhymes pretty much most of my waking hours.

I just became obsessed with the craft of how do you say whatever you want to say and still do it in a way where it's got a meter, it's got a heartbeat to it. It can have a powerful message, it can be funny, it can be sad. It can just be about making you move and dance and stuff like that.

I just became completely obsessed with like, wow, this idea of combining poetry with music itself. That's what exploded everything creatively for me. Art, your creativity, that's what's up.

I want to touch on something you just mentioned. You talked about expressing your identity. How has your identity both been beneficial and maybe at times worked against you as you've tried to build your career as an artist and reach a variety of audiences? I'm mixed.

I'm black and white. My mom's white, my dad's black. I think being raised in the Twin Cities and at a time where it was even less diverse than we are now, I think I didn't have a lot of examples or role models to really help me understand who I am or what's my place in the world.

A lot of the language we have around race and culture and identity now also was not really much of a thing in the 80s and 90s. I would often just get the question, what are you? You started hearing that enough as a kid. You're just like, damn, am I just like an alien? Am I just this foreign species and no one knows what to do with it? That definitely created a bit of a complex where I'm just kind of like, okay, people don't seem to really know what to make of me.

That can be challenging for sure, for any adolescent coming up. I think while that will always play a part of my identity in a way, I also think that you have to just make peace with who you are. I also feel like at a time where hip-hop was such important part of my life, one, music and writing became a venue for me to express who I am and how I feel about it, explore that identity, share those thoughts.

Then I also just pretty plainly felt like I just identified more with Black culture because hip-hop music is very largely of that culture. It also just made me feel like people are always going to see me and read me and decide what that means to them. I can't control that, but what I can control is what comes out of the pen, what comes out of my mouth into the mic.

I just thought that it's dope to, as an artist, again, you can create your own image and identity through your art. Then also, I guess, what else? Just being that I was the only child, a lot of it, too, I was just left to my devices. I was a very introverted young man.

So again, I'm like, all right, it's just me and my music. I just had time and space to explore whatever came up in my mind. I wrote a lot of trash that will never see the light of day.

You too, huh? I think it was. It's part of it. I just felt like I had to do that in order to start getting to good stuff.

I don't know if I answered your question. The only reason I bring it up is because I think identity politics always kind of bubbles just under the surface when it comes to hip-hop. Every once in a while, it rears its head.

Logic seems forever in controversy, for those of you who don't know who Logic is. He's a mixed-race emcee. My wife is mixed-race, so we have these conversations in our household all the time.

You're not Black enough for Black fans. You're not white enough for white fans, or you're Black to white fans. Then, of course, in a very subtle, maybe not so subtle way in the Kendrick Lamar and Drake battle, identity politics has been weaponized and is always a part of the conversation.

Brother Ali, who's albino, deals with his journey with having to address his physical appearance in that world on multiple songs in his discography. It was a question that, as you brought it up and talked about how your writing helped you process identity and then being on stages and being able to put yourself out there. I think it's also interesting, though, that you say that you grew up a very introverted person.

A lot of emcees seem to be very introverted until they get on the stage, which for me, I've never been introverted. That's not my personality at all. I do know a lot of my friends and a lot of people who I, even if they're not a friend, are just associates in hip-hop or in the craft, are very introverted off the stage.

You talked about being an only child. How did being an only child, you did touch on that a little bit, really force you to go deep into the realms of your creative imagination because there was nobody else maybe around to bounce what your thoughts were off of? Yeah. I think the reality is that when you have a couple parents that they're busy working, yeah.

I went to daycare when I was younger. I remember all that stuff. Obviously, I was in school, but I also had a lot of time just at home, whether it's after school or during the summer, where it was just up to me to keep myself entertained.

Yes. Credit to my parents. They weren't the type to just say, just turn on the TV and stare at that all day.

You didn't get an iPhone when you were 12. What's that? You didn't get an iPhone when you were 12. Right, right.

Not exactly. I feel very blessed that I had a love of reading instilled in me pretty young. I just liked reading all kinds of stuff, really creative stuff.

I could find myself getting lost in these different worlds. I think while I had a lot of work to do in terms of just getting outside of my shell and taking risks and meeting new friends and stuff like that, it took me a while to get to a place where I could just feel comfortable doing that. That's I still struggle with, to be honest.

I guess in the discovery process, I learned whether it's a book that I pick up or a song I listen to, I'm able to go in these little worlds and it would transport me. I think I had a deep appreciation for just art in general from a very young age. I love storytelling and reading a good story, hearing a good story in any format.

I think again by the time I was in high school, it was a little bit more like, okay, I'm starting to feel a little bit more comfortable in my body, feel more comfortable in my place in the world and starting to take risks with whether it was going on stage or just jumping into a cypher or something like that, going out to shows. Then I started realizing that I'm not alone. Even if I felt isolated at times or whether it was my identity and feeling like, oh shit, do I even belong here? Am I cool enough to get in? But I think just once you get out of your own head and get out of your own way and just start taking risks, start meeting people, that stuff usually gets proven wrong and it just kind of melts away.

I'm glad that even though I had some, I see the way I phrase it, I always called myself, I'm an introvert with extroverted tendencies because there were times where when I felt moved to perform, then I'm like, I'm ready. I think one thing that's been said about me a lot that I've heard people say about me is like, wow, you seem so quiet and calm, but when you get on stage, you could completely transform. And I'm not going to lie, I kind of like that.

I sort of like being able to surprise people in that way. But I think it's true where it's like, sometimes it takes me a while to gather the energy and figure out what I want to say or how I want to say it. But then once I'm like, okay, I'm ready to go, then I just kind of leave everything on the stage.

And that's been a really fun journey for me too, just performance wise. Because it's like, when you first start performing, you're happy if you just get all the words right. I wasn't even thinking about, oh man, was my breath control cool? Did I connect with the crowd? Was I really moving people? I remembered everything.

I just didn't mess up. I didn't stutter over my words. I didn't trip and fall.

So it was a pretty low bar when the shows first started happening, but yeah. Well, let's segue here. One, I want to come back a little bit later on to that concept of risk-taking, but before we get there, so you lived kind of this life as an artist, you've opened up for De La Soul.

And I think I read somewhere you opened up, was it Snoop Dogg, I think I saw somewhere you opened up for and other major artists and you've traveled, you've been in Europe, you've been in Canada, you've traveled all around the U.S. And then you decided to be a teacher. So I got kind of a two-part question for you. One, what led you to channel your artistic prowess, your performing and writing and being a musician? What led you to channel that into being an educator? And then two, do you feel like being that kind of multifaceted or having that duality, I should actually say, between kind of being quiet and more introverted, and then at the same time, knowing how to really open yourself up and be performative and that energy transfer that comes with an audience, you feel like that gives you larger bandwidth in the classroom to be able to relate to a wider range of student personality types.

So kind of twofold. One, what led you into being an educator? And then two, do you feel like your personality type mixed with your performance experience allows you to have a more expanded range of young people that you can connect with? Yeah. I found out that I could be a teacher once I was teaching.

And it sounds funny, but basically I was in a position in my life where my first wife and I had recently split, so I'm kind of doing the single parent thing. And I was still 100% devoted to making music and being an artist. But just to be real, I was like, it's not paying the bills.

I got a kid to take care of. And so I just got to a place in my life where I'm like, I had to start thinking about a way to put food on the table. And I had been pretty content doing the starving artist.

I'll pay the bills somehow, but I'm not- But there's somebody else that's starving with you. Right. Yeah.

Once you got a little baby looking at you, that's a whole other thing. So honestly, yeah, I was in a place where I'm like, okay, I need a job that's actually going to provide. A friend of mine who was a teacher was saying there was a position at their school.

It was a special ed para position. I didn't even know what that was, but they assured me just apply, you'll be fine. I got the job.

So I was working at Fair School downtown and as a special ed paraprofessional. And I'll never forget, I did a little summer training stuff. So I'm kind of getting ready.

I'm like, okay, it's a whole new world. I'm trying to learn this role and what I'm going to be doing. And then the first day of school happens, I'm halfway through the day and I hear my name called on the intercom, go to the principal's office and I get in trouble already.

And I go in there and the assistant principal was wanting to talk to me. And she was like, hey, so you do spoken word, right? And I'm like, yeah, yeah. And in my head, I'm like, I mean, not really, but don't tell her that.

And she's like, okay, so, well, there's a spoken word class. And so I'm wondering, would you be interested in teaching that? And so I'm kind of like, yeah, sure. Yeah.

When does that start? I'm thinking I got a little time to prepare. She's like, yeah, it starts at like two o'clock. I'm like, okay, so.

Two o'clock that day? Two o'clock that day, yeah. So that's how it started. And so while I was still doing the para job kind of for most of my day, I got two electives at the end of the day where I got to just teach this spoken word poetry class.

And it was mostly, I was going to say mostly juniors and seniors, but honestly, it's probably ninth through 12th grade. And yes, it was terrifying because again, I had no formal training for that, but I just leaned into my experience as an artist. And I also just tried to think about what is the classroom that I would want to be in? What's the class I would want to take if I was in high school with that opportunity? And so I remember once I'd gotten my feet wet a little bit and it's going on now, I'm, you know, it's going on for weeks and I'm like, okay, I'm actually doing this.

And it was clear. It's like, yeah, there's a ton of stuff I can learn techniques with teaching and everything, but it felt like more was going right than was not. And so that was the thing that encouraged me.

So then I started getting some encouragement, later pressure from my administration, like, hey, you need to go to school, like get your, you know, get some degrees, get your teaching certificate so that you can do this like officially and full time. Cause I basically had to work under a community expert license, you know, a teaching variance and that thing would, you'd have to renew it every year. And you could only do it for like three years in a row, basically, or three years tops.

So I just said, I hit a point where I did it. I renewed it all three years and I'd reached the limit and I had to make a decision. It was just like, okay, well, are you going to continue down this path or not? And I just, again, looking at my situation, I just thought, you know, I've, I've seen some really cool and powerful things happen as, as a teacher of young people.

And it just seemed like every time I took a step forward in that direction, another door opened. So I just followed that, stepped away from the classroom for a little bit, just to focus on, on going to school. And, and yeah, that's what kind of put me in that position.

But the funny thing is that, you know, even before that, like I actually looked back and, and realized that, oh, I'd actually been in the classroom a number of times. Cause it was like, whether it was friends who were teaching, who would just ask me to come in and, you know, maybe it was just one day or maybe it was just more, you know, of an ongoing, like a residency type thing. But and, and, and I was on the compass roster for some time.

And so, I mean, my, my time with them was incredible. I loved the opportunity to just go in multiple classrooms and in different spaces around the city and, and just meet young folks. And so all that was really just kind of reassurance that even though I took an untraditional path to the classroom, it didn't mean that I didn't, you know, deserve to be there or have any skills that would apply.

So yeah. I always say, and I say this to teachers when I go into classrooms is that we don't choose the teaching profession. It chooses us and it finds us at some point in time in life.

I never, ever wanted to go into teaching. My father was an educator. He was taught in general college at the university of Minnesota and was an academic advisor for the gopher football team.

So he was constantly, you know, in charge of making sure knuckleheads that played division one college football went to class and did well and got degrees. My mother was a high school counselor at St. Paul central. She also taught some women's study stuff over there.

And, and I just looked at their journey. I was like, there's no way in hell I'm going into education. No way.

I remember my mother would come home and she'd have bags under her eyes, you know, being a counselor, she's absorbing all of the energy of 1980 St. Paul kids. Right. And you know, Rondo and Selby Dell community kids at that.

So like, you know, for those of you who are younger, there was no boardwalk on Selby Avenue when I was growing up. So nobody jogged. If somebody was running down Selby, when I was a kid, something or someone was chasing them, you know, now people jog down Selby.

And so I was like, there's no way I'm going into education. And, and yet lo and behold, you know, here I am 20 plus years pretty much teaching a regular teacher's schedule with compass. Couldn't, couldn't avoid it.

And it seems like you're the same way. It sounds like you had parents that, that had, that provided you a certain level of stability and influence toward intellectualism. And, and, and, and it sounds like you were, you were made to do what you do and you went on this journey, right.

And probably are still, cause music is in us, hip hop is in us. It'll never go anywhere, but here you are in the classroom and teaching. And now question, now I always, for some reason, I thought you went into teaching math and you teach language arts, correct? Yeah.

Okay. Yeah. Cause I was like, how did he go from rapping to teaching math, but it was always language arts.

They were the damage of wrath of the math, you know, I mean, you know, it is mathematics. Now we're getting, now we're getting real deep down the rabbit hole. Yeah.

Yeah. It was, it was always ELA. I mean, again, some of the initial experiences in the classroom, it was usually under the guise of like, like a creative writing project that kids were working on or maybe a performance thing.

Yeah. A lot of poetry stuff for sure. But yeah, I never taught math.

It was pretty much always English. Okay. But it's funny.

Cause like anytime, anytime I would share my, my art or my music with, with students, one of the most asked questions of all time that I got was just like, wait, if you rap, like why are you a teacher? Like they just, like, is this, those two worlds could not coexist, you know, in their minds. They didn't grow up on KRS-One. Yeah.

Right. They didn't grow up on the teacher. Right.

That, I mean, he comes up in my mind often. Cause I'm like, man, I bet a lot of kids don't know that name right now. And for most of my upbringing, you know, that dude was considered like he was the man, you know? Yes.

Yes. I want to ask you what are some stories or maybe what's a story you can tell where your inspiring creativity in the classroom led to an experience or a student doing something that left you surprised or moved or inspired, or just like, wow, this was already in this person. And maybe I was a bit of a conduit to help bring it out, but this is amazingness that just happened in front of my eyes.

I mean, I'll take it right back to that first kind of classroom teaching position that fell in my lap at fair doing spoken word elective. And I remembered, you know, when I was trying to figure out, okay, what do I want these students to get out of this? What do I want them to experience and, you know, walk away with? And I was just thinking like, I mean, in order to make it real and meaningful, like, I want them to perform. I want them to write.

I want them to perform. And I don't want them to just perform for me and for us. And like, that can be cool.

And like something that we do in our classroom, but like, I want them to work up towards a public performance. And so I remember, you know, maybe it was around like, you know, mid semester, you know, about halfway through a semester or something like that. And I was just like, you know, I'm just going to put on, I'm gonna put on this show.

And so I found, you know, that's another good thing with having some of the musical background experiences that, you know, it helped me find various venues if I wanted to do stuff like that, you know. Resources. Yeah, exactly.

So found a spot. And they were real cool. It was a nice little theater space.

And we just did like a, I mean, it was like a definitely after school and outside of school. And I remember thinking, you know, because it was the first show and a lot of these kids in my class, they were considered sort of the outcasts. I mean, a lot of the way the other teachers and administration kind of talked about a number of my students was like, you know, they really did not have expectations for these students to like, do much of anything.

That's how I felt anyway. It really was like, they just give me the, you know, the bad news bears or something. And so I was like, you know what? I'm hearing these kids write some really powerful stuff.

And I want to give them an opportunity for other people to hear that. So we put on a show. And again, it was a little nerve wracking because it could have gone sideways.

I mean, you know, you never know what's going to happen at a show. It's like until someone gets up and actually does it. Because it was, you know, it was a lot of these kids first and only time performing, but they got up there in front of, you know, a lot of their school community, their families.

And just, man, I mean, they all killed. I mean, I remember across the board, but there were some performances that just like, brought the house down. I mean, and I just never felt that kind of pride, you know? And so I think that was a moment for me where it kind of sealed the deal of like, okay, I can do some like, really important work in this field and in this position.

And so, yeah, I was just so happy for those kids to rise to the occasion and really just put a lot of people on notice that it kind of written them off. Because, you know, I think what they did, you know, it's like, there's a lot of adults who can't do that, you know? I think performance, public speaking, that's one of the more challenging things that any human can do. So, yeah, that was a really special moment.

So that was, was that kind of what you'd say your aha moment? Like, this is why kids need arts in schools. This is why kids need artistic minds in schools. This is the type of value that a holistic education is supposed to have.

100%. 100%. And what brought it kind of full circle for me was because, so I told you, I started at South High School.

So I went there from freshman to junior year. I ended up transferring to the purpose, the arts high school for my senior year. And I went there for music, just as an emcee.

And I remember, I remember feeling so disappointed in my school. And this wasn't, this is not to like, any specific shade at South, because just what my experience was, was pretty typical. And the reason that I was, I kind of, I fell out of love with being a student.

I actually used to really like it. And I became so infatuated with my craft and just writing rhymes and lyrics specifically. And I was like, you know, here I am just fully devoted to the craft of writing.

I'm spending like multiple hours a day doing this. And yet there's no place for it in my educational experience. And so I really, that really drove a wedge between me and my education.

I started, my grades started really tanking my junior year. And I was really in a place where I was like, man, I could have seen myself maybe not graduating high school or just something like that. Just because I was just so like, kind of disgusted with the fact that like, why, you know, it's not that I don't, I'm showing up.

It's not that I don't want to learn, but I'm like, this is what I, this is what I want to devote my time to. And so if I hadn't found a space that, you know, was able to allow me to do my, my craft for, you know, half of every day and things like that, you know, I'm not sure, I'm not sure what would have happened in that regard, but, you know, and then jump back to the teaching moment. And I'm looking back and it's like that, that's something I drew on as a teacher a lot as well.

Because again, without the formal training, I just kind of looked at, well, what do I not want to do? I want to make sure that I don't have a student feeling like the way I did, where it's like, oh, you know, I have this passion, but I got, I have no space for it in my school day. And so I would say that there's been a number of students that I would say that I saw that they had some passion and just felt like, you know what, this, the student might be unwilling to do X, Y, and Z assignments. And again, it seems like a lot of educators and even sometimes their own families are throwing their hands up going, I don't know what to do with this kid.

Let's, let's tap into what they are telling us they're excited about. Let's find a way to bring that into their classroom, into their educational experience. And, you know, we can be malleable.

We can find a way to give that credit. Like, yeah, I'm going to put some expectations and parameters around it and I'm going to, you know, hold you accountable for doing, you know, X, Y, and Z. But I just think there's so many, so many times we just miss opportunities to meet kids where they're at and to allow them to be truly inspired in the classroom. A lot of times I just feel like the traditional approach is just kind of like, this is what we're doing.

This is the box, take the box. If you can't, if you can't mess with the box or make something out of it, then I guess that's a you problem. And, and so that's, I've just been driven to, you know, not, not have, not have students feel the way I did with just kind of feeling this disillusionment and alienation in my own educational experience.

Man, that, that we, we don't even have time to go down the rabbit hole of education reform. But man, I've had this conversation with many, many people about the, the, to me, just the redundancy and ignorance of having all these buildings and using them all to do the same stuff. But that's a whole, that's a whole nother conversation for a whole nother day.

Um, let's segue a little bit then into kind of the now, um, the last few years have been really challenging with, you know, uh, the pandemic and, you know, I keep hearing Kendrick Omari in my head going back outside, but they still, uh, you know, between the pandemic and George Floyd, um, especially here in the twin cities, but even how that affected people globally. I had people, you know, when I was in Scotland and in London, and as soon as they hear from Minnesota, they're like, they want to talk about George Floyd and how that moved them, you know, all the way on the other side of, in the, in the, of the planet and another hemisphere. And then, um, and then just how distance learning has affected, um, so much of how young people learn.

And I think when I try to talk to people about it, it's twofold. It's, there was the distance learning aspect there. And then there was also the aspect for many kids of being stuck in homes that school was an escape from it to begin with, or after school activities or before school activities.

And then, um, the isolation in their rooms in an era where every kid has a TV in their room and a video game console or a smartphone. And so kind of the, what I call the socialization of robotics, like you, you're not really communicating with real people anymore. You would just learn how to communicate with robots.

Um, and then how that plays a role in the classroom now. Um, and what are, you know, and we only have about 15 minutes left, but I do want to touch on this. What are some things you're seeing that's different in the classroom amongst your students? How does being a creative and using creativity, maybe help to maybe bring students back to humanity and social decorum and things like that.

Um, and then how is it different for you with your experience as an artist and a performer and taking your approach to education, maybe different from your colleagues and peers and what you hear from them as fellow teachers. So I know that's kind of a lot in one, but if you can kind of follow that, that train of thought. Yeah, just some, um, and just for, you know, context, my first official year as like a licensed, you know, ELA classroom teacher was the 1920 school year.

And so like, Oh, the 20, 19, 20, 20. Okay. I'm like, Hey, he was teaching in 1920.

You're the Harlem Renaissance professor. No. So, yeah.

I mean, so literally the, the, the spring of my first, um, you know, full year of teaching COVID kicked in. So, um, yeah. What a time to, to, to join, you know, that field, but I would just say, you know, I've definitely noticed that, um, it seemed to generally really have a hard time with just, um, talking to each other and just, you know, something that I really tried to emphasize in my classes, like, man, like, let's have, let's have discussions.

Like, you know, I can, I cannot, I can't be okay with just, it's not just me just talking at you, you know, or trying to fill you out with information. It's like, you know, we learn by doing and, and, and by having conversation. And so, um, yeah, whether it's small group at the table or whole class, I just, that's something that I, I noticed that kids seem to really struggle with that.

And I think to be fair, that could have always been true, but I do think that like having experienced, um, yeah, the, the pandemic and, and especially like what you were touching on with just the introduction of technology in general, I do think that, um, kids, yeah, I think a lot of kids feel really isolated and disconnected from just the human experience, you know? And so there's part of me, uh, you know, um, I don't know if I can say like, I do feel kind of old school in some ways where I'm like, I still love writing pen to paper. Of course, I'm in a world where, you know, we're, we're, we're using zoom calls and technology right now. We embrace that.

But, um, I still have my students do like kind of free writes by hand, uh, in a notebook. I still, um, I still ask them to give presentations of various topics, usually about something that they can choose that they care about. Um, because I think it's so important to know that you can get up in front of a room of your peers and just share something that means something to you.

And the room's not going to burst into flames. In fact, people will probably applaud and, and be really interested in what you have to say. Um, and even just little things like, you know, my last school, um, they had never had a talent show and they hadn't been around for super long, but too long to not have a talent show.

And so me and some of my, um, work friends just said, you know, let's just, let's make it happen. So we, we put it on. And of course it's just like, you know, you, if you present the opportunity, the kids will show up.

And so sure enough, um, we just made it a thing. The kids crushed it. It was a huge hit.

And I'm like, that's the thing. School has to be a place beyond just where they go to, you know, go through their daily schedule and do their homework. It's like, no, they have to have like moments, they have to have cultural experiences.

Um, but yeah, I mean, there were kids dancing, doing, you know, singing, rapping, um, you know, playing piano, like, so to me that's special. Um, and it sounds basic and maybe, um, I don't know, maybe some people would dismiss it as like, how could that be so important to education? Um, but I, all I know is what I experienced personally. And for me having, um, my creativity sparked and nurtured and also having other subjects that I was interested in and teachers who cared about me that that's what made all the difference.

So, um, I bring, I try to bring my whole self into the classroom. Um, I absolutely tap into my performance experience and, um, you know, I have bad days like, like any other teacher too. And I I'm constantly learning from my mistakes and then how to, how to be a better educator.

But, um, yeah, at least at this point in time, I feel like, um, I I've had some really incredible moments, um, you know, and I feel like I've had a really good impact, um, on the lives of a lot of young people and, and I hope to continue down that path. It sounds to me like they just need to hire former emcees into every classroom for language arts and they'll create better school environments. I don't know.

Um, you got my vote. So as, as we kind of talk about that, um, your conversation is evidence. Um, I like to think my work is evidence, um, in terms of the tree of people that are now adults that I worked with that are doing the same work in terms of trying to help young people.

Um, all the research supports that being creative and participating in the arts helps students do better in academia period. You talked about like, once you found a place where you were able to tap into that part of you, it helps you just redevelop a love for school and education in general. Um, yet it continues to be, you know, cut out when it comes time to, for funding, you know, surveys and research suggests everyone supports funding the arts and schools.

And yet that's the first thing to go. So why do you think that problem never really gets fixed? And, and aside from just saying, let's stop talking about it and be about it. What are your ideas for how, how we fix it? One of the things that really kind of blew my mind when I started traveling a lot, especially outside of the country, I would notice, um, other places that they seem to really value art in a way that felt like just different.

I was like, wow. Wow. Okay.

Like this, the, their, the government is like actively pouring funds into these events, these experiences, these artists, these happenings, even free museums. I mean, and I was just looking at it like, wow, like why can't, why can't we do that? I don't understand. And so to me, it's really just a, it's an issue of priorities.

You know, I just feel like the money is there. Um, but for whatever reason, and I feel like that's a whole nother episode that, you know, we could get into, but it's like the, the money never seems to be there. Um, anytime, you know, budget starts getting tight.

Like you said, it's the first thing to go. Um, I, you know, having a bunch of teacher friends, I'm always hearing from them like, oh yeah, you know, this program just got cut at our school. I got friends who teach theater and they haven't been able to work at the same school for more than two or three years before the whole department, you know, gets, gets cut.

And so it's, it's really, it's sad to me, to me, it just feels like, you know, it's it, well, first off education as a whole is completely underfunded. Like when you look at some of the other things that, you know, we, we pour money into. Um, but then, yeah.

Why is it that the arts, which to me are transformative, I honestly, I think that that might be the most, um, there might be the most room for discovery in terms of like revolutionizing, like how we, how we teach and how people learn because, um, we, we just kind of go back to the, the traditional pillars, like, okay, you know, STEM, you know, let's focus on that. And it's funny too, because I mean, even when I was having to decide, like when I was in school, well, what's going to be my major? What's going to be my focus? What area of licensure will I go into? I remember even feeling conflicted about that. And ultimately I chose ELA because I was like, well, I'm one, I'm always going to have a job there, but two, um, maybe I could be someone who expands the definition of what an ELA teacher can do or can be.

Um, maybe there's a world in which I don't have to, you know, I don't have to fit in the box. I can basically, now that I have these credentials, you know, I have this freedom to, to do as I, as I please. But, um, yeah, it's, it's really sad to me because I think we're leaving a lot on the table.

Um, if there's one thing that's always true, something that's true today that was true when you and I were in school as well, is that kids love music. Okay. Um, they love, there's a lot, and there's a lot more things too, but one cultural things that, one of the things that helps me connect to young people, it's music.

Um, and so the, you know, and you know this too, when you go into a room and when you spit and they see that you have skills and they feel it, um, all of a sudden it's like any preconceived notions they had about you might go out the window. Uh, there's an instant connection there. All of a sudden they're completely open to hear what you have to say there.

You know, I mean, it just, it just opens up worlds and tears down barriers. And so I just think that just the power of, you know, music, uh, the spoken word, like that can do things that I, I still believe is a largely untapped. Um, we always think of art and, and creativity.

That's like an elective. That's like a, you know, you know, after school go, go do that after you've done your real studies. And it's like, no, there's no reason why that couldn't be incorporated into all of your studies.

Um, and, and, you know, help you learn in new ways that you couldn't even imagine. So, yeah, I think just arts in general, it's just like grossly dismissed. Um, and quite frankly, you know, if I, if I got told by an administration, like, you know, I need to, uh, stop, you know, working, uh, creative, you know, writing into my practice is like, I'd have to leave because that's, uh, it's just a part of who I am.

And I know that if, if I'm not being authentic and genuine to my students, then I'm doing them a disservice, um, as well as myself. So, um, yeah, that's, that's something I feel really strongly about. Also the fact that I went through most of my school educational experience without having a of color, um, that even really looked like me.

And so I, I, I have had many students who, um, I'm, I know that because I am a man of color that they have, um, kind of latched onto me in a way that they would not, um, if, if it was a white teacher and they, like we have, we have connected in a way that, um, you know, it just wouldn't be the same otherwise. And so, um, I, again, I think some people might hear that and, and feel some type of way about it, but it's just kind of the truth is that sometimes kids do need to have, um, educators who, you know, who are, are men, cause that's also a minority and especially a man of color. Um, and anybody, I was gonna say anybody who would refute that is somebody that their norm is seeing representation of themselves in the classroom.

Yes. No, people can say, oh, well, what difference does it make? You know, it's like, it doesn't make a difference to you because that's your norm, but for children of color, um, that's not their norm. And as a matter of fact, it's, it's such an outlier.

And especially you talk about being, um, male, you know, uh, uh, you know, a black male in the front of the classroom is it's why I go to Roseau every year and teach, you know, for compass. It's like, when are they ever going to see a black man with a degree standing in front of them, speaking intellectualism in Roseau, Minnesota, if I don't go. Yeah.

So it's not just for the students of color, but it's for all the students who will never get that imagery, you know, and so that's that's what we do. We only got, I didn't mean to cut you off. We only got about, about six or seven more minutes here.

And there's just a couple of things I want to ask you before, before we part, widening that lens, um, from the classroom to the world around us. And I want to preface this by saying, you talked about the importance of art and the importance of music in the classroom. And, you know, the society always says kind of a setup because they give us, they give us all of all of this candy when we're growing up and then they take it away from us when we become grown.

And everything we learn, um, in our, our formative years, our early years, um, you know, and I'm, I'm old enough to remember, I learned from Sesame Street and Electric Company, you know, now kids, you know, then it was Barney and Dora and whatever, Power Rangers, like all of these lessons that are put into this animation, people forget that someone's artistic process, that someone's creativity. So, you know, all of the songs, all of the puppet, the puppet, you know, the puppeteering, all of the animation, um, all of those things that those basics we learn, that's all art, you know? And so the idea that now we're going to, you know, not consider art, um, uh, a funding priority, it just baffles me because, you know, you wonder why kids come into a classroom and all they want to do is put on their earbuds and listen to music or turn on, open their screen and watch anime or, you know, some type of animated programming, even if it's a video game. Well, that's been their, their teacher, you know, outside of, you know, all of the artistic stuff you do in kindergarten, first grade, which is always about doing art, you know? And then, and then now they're 13, 14, and we're telling them that, you know, now you have to be very rigid and extract everything you've ever learned about how you learn.

And so it's always a setup. But anyway, um, getting into, you know, from, from the classroom to just the world in general, what do you think is the, and we'll try to be brief, what do you think is the greatest need for creativity, um, and inner human, um, um, kind of connectivity worldwide? Like take it out of the classroom and, and go to this very small now because of technology world, what do you think creativity needs to be fostering, um, for a better planet, for a better world? I shouldn't say planet, the planet will be fine, but for a better world. Man, I really think that if we, you know, the, the lens I look at it through is just, you know, again, as an artist and because I've experienced the world through the lens of an artist and had the opportunity to, to play, you know, overseas and stuff, I'm like, I, I see art as a vehicle of change.

And I, and I see on a local level, like how can we have the kind of global impact locally to me, you know, I'm still looking back to having spaces where young people, well, I mean, frankly, anyone in the community, but especially young people can gather. This is something, so I, I was born and raised in South Minneapolis. Um, my wife and I bought a house, um, she bought the house in 2018.

I started living here in, uh, March of 2020. So I'm, I'm a new resident to North Minneapolis, um, and it's beautiful over here. And one of the things that shocked me when I learned was that, you know, the way the community center, where of course we like the famously tout Prince and Jimmy Jam and Terry Lewis, right.

Um, that was really just, that was a cultural hub. It was just a space where people could gather, um, have meetings, band practice, whatever it is. And the fact that like, you know, they did North side, just like they did Rondo where, you know, they just put, uh, you know, a freeway, a highway basically through the neighborhood.

And then the way it turned into the fourth precinct. And so when you, to me, I mean, that's an act of war. And when you, when you take away, um, the ability for people to just meet and gather and do sort of, you know, imagine and just be creative in their own neighborhoods, when you start taking that away, to me, you really can't wonder why you'll see pockets of our community where people, uh, feel hopeless where, you know, we're in a food desert and, you know, we're financially just like in shambles.

And it's like, um, I, I really think that again, it sounds super simple, but, um, uh, I think it's a radical thing to allow people in their own community to have spaces in which to gather, to plan, to collaborate, to grow, to, because, because I'm telling you, like, you know, we're, we're leaving, we're leaving generations of, of, you know, I, I don't want to say the next Prince, cause there's only one Prince, but it's like the next iteration, you know what I'm saying? And so, um, I, I do think that we have, we've gotten into an era where um, art and artists have become this, like this commercial, um, you know, like when you kids are watching videos on their phones or whatever, it's like the disconnect happens because they forget that, like, we are people too, that are right in front of you. And so, yeah, of course it's dope to put that product out into the world and get your message out. But I think we've lost the connection to just the, just some of the most basic age old human experiences of like, we need to be gathering, um, face to face.

Um, and I, I think that everything good will stem from that. Like we can figure out, you know, what do people need? What do people want? What's our vision for, um, our neighborhood, for our community in the next five years, 10 years, a hundred years? Like, um, because yeah, I think right now it's been, it feels like since 2020, it feels like, you know, when they do like controlled burns in the wild, it feels like the city kind of burnt down. And now I'm kind of waiting to see, I'm like, I'm just curious what's going to sprout and grow in the aftermath.

And it's, it's, um, as someone who is very nostalgic, there's, there's venues and other places that are no longer there that it hurts to feel like, oh man, that place was so dope. It's not there anymore. That was a piece of Minnesota, you know, music history, but at the same time, you know, there's always going to be new opportunity in the wake of, um, some of that destruction.

And so, uh, you know, I think it's exciting to see what comes next. Um, I can't wait to hear the next, you know, generation of emcees that come out of the twin cities that aren't even on my radar right now. Um, you know, the next B boys and B girls, graffiti artists, DJs, like all that, because yeah, right now I'm, I'm in a weird spot where I'm like, I'm just feel like I'm getting to relearn my own city and community.

Cause so much has changed just within the last five years or so. But, uh, yeah, what a time to be alive. And I'm just hoping that art, um, I feel like it's starting to get responsive and reactive as opposed to proactive.

Um, and maybe that's why they keep cutting art funding and cutting spaces is because they don't want that proactive message about how community can build and create change and be a vehicle for change. Um, but we, we have to get back to art being proactive and not just reactive or responsive. We can't wait for the next thing to happen.

And then everybody wants to hear from the artists. We need the artists oftentimes are the fortune tellers, um, um, or the, or the, uh, you know, the, the prognosticators of what's to come. Um, my final question to you, uh, would be, um, are there any gems of wisdom about creativity you'd like to share or anything that I haven't asked you about, but I want to lead into that question with something that I, uh, read that you told a group of students, um, at Perpich, you said that, uh, uh, as about your own artistic journey, you offer three pieces of advice, collaborate, mind people, make cool things, um, their strength in numbers.

And you said to take artistic risks and risk-taking has been a big, uh, underlying theme in our conversation. And clearly in your journey as not just an artist, but as a, as a human spirit, um, you said growth requires discomfort. I love that.

Um, and say yes to maybe opportunities. I think I'm gonna take that one for myself. Um, I need to do more of that.

And then, um, lastly, you said, hone your craft, find your muse, create routines and rituals. Also something I think is so missing for today's is creating a routine and, and being disciplined about your routine. Um, uh, if you can just briefly kind of elaborate on those kind of, you know, kind of combine them into one piece of advice and elaborate on how those three things is kind of what you offer up to young people and to aspiring artists.

Yeah. So the first part collaboration, um, again, I picture my introverted high school self or even younger, uh, alone in the room. And I got all these cool ideas on the page and I don't know if they're good or not.

Maybe there's something cool, but it's the collaboration part is about, you know, art has to become, um, a living thing and it has to become something that's outside of you. And I think once you, um, find people to share with, I think you'll find that, um, one, you get to experience how other people view your art too. That's to me, that's one of the coolest parts of being an artist is like hearing how other people, you know, interpret and react to things that I've created.

Um, but it, you know, again, that's culture. Um, and that's not even just specific to hip hop specifically as a culture, but, um, especially hip hop, you know, it's like, uh, I could have been the, you know, in my mind, the baddest MC, you know, on the page, but if I'd never got out of my room and shared that, then what is it really? So I just think, um, yeah, you just, you gotta put yourself out there. Um, and by collaboration that requires some, some risk taking too, right? It's like, it sort of forces you out of your comfort zone, um, in a way.

And again, um, I could not tell you what compelled me to get on that stage, uh, at South High School that opened mic all those years ago. Um, that was not normal. Like that was not, that was not like, uh, a behavior that was predictable, but for some reason I just, that force just said, you just have to do this.

And so I think, um, I would encourage anyone, uh, wherever you are in life, um, just, just take a chance because there's so many opportunities. There's always open mics out here. Um, if that's not your craft, you know, there's, there's other places for you to express yourself and find your own artistic medium, but you have to, you just, you have to take that first step, you know? Um, and so collaborate, um, take those risks.

And then the rituals, you know, I, I mostly said those rules because I'm like, these are the things that I have to hear myself. And so I, um, I'm someone that I'm constantly trying to tap into those, uh, routines and rituals and they change over time, you know? Um, but I, I think, uh, one of my favorite books is Writing Down the Bones. Um, uh, Natalie Goldberg, I believe local author.

And one of her first sayings is just like, um, you know, you, you have to show up like every day, um, to, to your craft. Like the, the magic isn't going to just happen on its own. If, if you don't, if you don't make space for it, if you don't show up, then you can't ever expect to make that growth.

And so it is, it's a commitment, it's a dedication. Um, and like I said, I had to write a lot of really, um, bad rhymes in order to start getting the good ones, but man, I'm, I'm so glad that I did. And I, and I'm working with, um, a young man right now who he, he, he reminds me a lot of myself and he's, he's hungry and he's like, show me the way.

And I'm like, all right, well, I'm gonna, I'm gonna put you to work because right now you owe me a stack of notebooks. I don't even want you to like, you know, I hope your expectations go out the window because I don't even care if it's good, if it's bad, whatever. But until you give me just pages and pages, then what are we really talking about? And so to me, and this, this is something that I believe as a teacher too, is just like reps, like a lot of young people, they just need reps.

So whether you're just working on your jump shot or whether you're trying to, you know, write the dopest rhyme in the world, it's like, um, you have to, you have to dedicate time and energy to that practice. Otherwise it's, it's not just going to polish itself, you know? Yes, sir. Man, Alexi, we have so many things in common.

Uh, we could probably talk all day. We didn't even touch on the fact that we both find the North shore as a very spiritual and precious place to us. Um, my father's ashes, I probably shouldn't say this publicly, but they were spread in Lake Superior because that's where he wanted to be.

And he took me up there as a kid all the way, you know, through Duluth, Lutzen, Grand Marais, all the way up into Canada. Um, so the North shore is very near and dear to me. We're both big time Timberwolves fans.

Um, we have to put a game together. I have to get you on my Timberwolves podcast. Uh, so we definitely need to hang out, um, more outside of, you know, working with young people and, and being musicians.

And so it was a pleasure talking with you. Um, happy to know that I can call you friend, man. You do wonderful work both as an artist and as a creative and with the community of youth that you work with.

Appreciate you so much for joining us here at Creativity on Tap. Man, happy to be here. Um, I've always looked up to you as, as a big bro in the community.

So yeah, this is, this was a long time coming and I look forward to sharing more space with you outside. Man, thank you. Thank you.

And thank you again. You have been tuned into Creativity on Tap. Creativity on Tap is a series of conversations produced by Compass about the value and importance of creativity.

This year, Compass turns 50. That's half a century of putting creativity into the hands of millions of Minnesotans. We are working really hard to ensure that we'll be doing this for another 50 years.

Creativity on Tap is part of Creativity Saves the World, a year-long initiative led by Compass to explore the role creativity can and must play in solving the unique challenges of this era. For more information about Compass and how creativity saves the world, please visit compass.org. That's C-O-M-P-A-S.org. Thank you for tuning in.