Episode 9: Larry McKenzie

In this inspiring episode, Coach Larry McKenzie chats with host Frank Sentwali about his remarkable journey as a Hall of Fame basketball coach, author, and educator. From leading Minneapolis schools to historic state championships to founding impactful youth programs, Larry highlights the transformative role of creativity in sports, education, and life. He discusses his innovative approaches to team building, motivation, and leadership, emphasizing the importance of discipline, imagination, and being "different to make a difference." Tune in to hear how creativity fuels champions—on and off the court.

About Larry McKenzie
Author, Certified Speaker, Trainer, and Six-Time H.S. Championship Basketball Coach Dedicated to Inspiring Champions

Coach, author, and educator Larry McKenzie is the first coach to win four straight state titles in the 100-year history of the Minnesota State Boys Basketball. In 2017, Coach McKenzie became the first coach in Minnesota High School Basketball history to lead two separate schools to multiple titles, both Minneapolis Patrick Henry and Minneapolis North.

Larry is a long-time community and youth advocate with 20-plus years of experience working with urban youth. His service to young people has earned him numerous awards and recognition, including KARE 11’s Eleven Who Care, KTCA’s Everyday Hero, the Minneapolis Park Board’s Volunteer of the Year, and Positive Image Father of the Year.

In 2014, Larry McKenzie became the first African-American coach selected to the Minnesota Basketball Coaches Hall of Fame. His commitment to the community is further reflected through his membership in Kappa Alpha Psi Fraternity Alumni Chapter, his service on the Metropolitan Council Minority Issues Advisory Committee, and his role as a board member for Big Brothers/Big Sisters of Greater Minneapolis, the North Community YMCA, the Northside Development Council, and other nonprofit organizations.

Larry’s professional background includes 25 years of business experience in management, sales, and marketing—including 10 years in the nonprofit sector. His experience includes serving as Executive Director of Hospitality House Youth Directions, an urban youth ministry; Urban Director at Youth Frontiers, which provides character education to Minnesota schools; and Executive Director and Charter School Liaison for Pillsbury United Communities. He is also the co-founder of the Above The Rim Youth Sports Foundation along with his wife, Pamela Wilkins-McKenzie.

HONORS / AWARDS

• NCAA Living Legend Award (2019)
• Guardian of the Game Award, National Basketball Coaches Association (2019)
• Miami Beach H.S. Hall of Fame (2018)
• Bush Fellowship Recipient (2018)
• First African-American Coach in the MN Basketball Coaches Hall of Fame (2014)
• First coach to win four straight state titles in 100-year history of the MN State Boys Basketball tournament
• Only coach to lead two teams to multiple state titles in Minnesota high school basketball (2017)
• KARE-11’s 11 Who Care
• KTCA’s Everyday Hero
• Volunteer of the Year, Minneapolis Park Board
• Father of the Year, Positive Image

About Creativity on Tap and COMPAS
Creativity on Tap is produced by COMPAS, a nonprofit that makes creativity accessible to all Minnesotans by providing participatory creative experiences. In each episode, Creativity on Tap brings together educators, entrepreneurs, elected officials, parents, and other community leaders to discuss creativity and answer the question: What is creativity, and how can it solve the unique challenges facing today's world?

You'll find Creativity on Tap anywhere you get your podcasts, in addition to

Transcript

Creativity on Tap: Larry McKenzie

You are listening to Creativity on Tap. Welcome. Creativity on Tap is a series of conversations produced by Compass about the value and importance of creativity.

This year, Compass turns 50. That's a half century of putting creativity into the hands of millions of Minnesotans. We are working really hard to ensure we'll be doing this for 50 more years.

Creativity on Tap is part of Creativity Saves the World, a year-long initiative led by Compass to explore the role creativity can and must play in solving the unique challenges of this era. For more information about Compass and how creativity saves the world, please visit compass.org. That's C-O-M-P-A-S dot org. Our guest this week is Larry McKenzie.

Larry is an experienced leader, educator, professional speaker. High school and semi-pro basketball coach, life changer. Larry McKenzie is the former executive director of Hospitality House Youth Directions, a youth development ministry in North Minneapolis, and founder of the Above the Rim Sports Foundation.

Over the course of nine years in coaching at Patrick Henry High School, Coach McKenzie used his ability to motivate young people in establishing one of the most successful high school boys' basketball programs in the nation. A coach for 24 years, Coach McKenzie won six state championships, including an elusive and unprecedented four-peat at Patrick Henry High. Under his guidance, Patrick Henry not only won four state championships, but Coach McKenzie was honored by the National Federation of High School Coaches Association with the 2011 Coach of the Year Award for Minnesota.

Coach McKenzie is in the Minnesota State High School Basketball Hall of Fame, the Minnesota State High School Coaches Hall of Fame, the Minnesota State High School League Hall of Fame, the University of Wisconsin River Falls Hall of Fame, and his high school Hall of Fame. Author of the book Much More Than a Game, A Leader and a Generator, on and off the basketball court, please welcome Coach Larry McKenzie. Good morning, Coach.

Thank you so much for joining us on Creativity on Tap. Good morning, Frank. Thank you for having me.

Honored to be here. Yes, you've been a leader, a coach, a speaker, an author. You played so many different roles in so many different areas with young people and adults.

Can you tell us a little bit about your background and how creativity has played a role in your journey, even starting perhaps in your childhood? Well, I mean, I think a little bit about my background. I mean, I don't know go back, but I'm the oldest of four kids. Grew up in a household where my parents would go on to become educators.

My mom was a special education teacher for 34 years in Miami-Dade County Public Schools. For me, and I think as it comes to coaching or whatever has been done, I like to think outside of the box. I believe that no matter what, what you're doing or how you're doing it, Frank, there's more than one way to get to Chicago.

And so you might go 94, but I might just decide I want to do the scenic route, right? And go 55. And so for me, you know, because we will say starting with the end goal in mind, right? First of all, what is the destination, right? Or what is the plan? What is the thing that that I want to do? And I always say, I mean, and one of the things that when you talk about creating, I would tell people as a basketball coach. For me, every season that that I coped for 25 years, it started out with me creating a puzzle.

And when I say my master schedule for the year was a puzzle, and then it was taking that and putting it together in the places and spaces that it goes. And I, one of the things that I found out that I assume that everybody did, but I would literally plan from the first day of practice to the last day of being in the state tournament in terms of being creative. The other thing, you know, when I look at creative things that I've done, you know, every year that I started, and I'm not sure where the idea came about, but every November after my team was selected, I took my kids outside of the city in the woods with no no telephone.

But we we I call it people say team building. I call it family building. Right.

But it was really getting to know who I had on my squad as as this family. And then it was us having Friday, Saturday and Sunday to come up with a plan that we all agreed on. You know what I'm saying? And so I think, you know, so when it comes and I'm just always, you know, like.

Just again, I tell people I like to say, you know, I'm an idea guy, you know what I'm saying? So I'm always thinking of ways of things, how to get something done. Maybe a little bit different than it's been done before. Right.

So. So. And I'll say this, man, I consider myself interested, much like you.

I have a book of poetry that I started writing when I was 14 years old, so I consider myself. I love to write. And so poetry.

I got plays that was written many, many years ago that have just been sitting dormant. And I'm hoping to eventually publish some of that stuff here. But but, you know what I'm saying? So I consider myself an artist.

Right. And as an artist, that's how I've approached my culture. Right.

And being creative in that way. Right. Being different.

You know, I always tell my kids, man, one of the things if you've been around me, I say being different is the difference. That that makes sense. And as I'm listening to you, it doesn't surprise me that.

Writing and literary creativity is a part of your journey the entire way. I think about I'm thinking about myself and you were a Hall of Fame basketball player before, you know, you know, at your college and at your high school, obviously. So not only could you coach, but apparently you could play.

Yeah. And so I'm sure because I know I did this as a child, I'm sure that there was those days where you were on the playground by yourself and you're hitting buzzer beaters against your imagination, you know, as every little aspiring Hooper to the three to one. And, you know, we had to have the buzzer and, you know, it was to your point.

You're 100 percent. You got going up in Miami, man. I'm going to tell you.

So in Florida, it's you know, at the time I grew up in a Pistol Pete era. Right. When Pistol Pete and Dr. J. And if you remember Pistol Pete game.

So, you know, pops had the the basketball hoop up in the driveway and I'm the oldest. Right. And in between me and my seven years in between me and my brother.

Oh, and there's two girls in between. So I had. And it's funny you say that.

I mean, I laugh for the longest, Frank. I had imaginary friends. Right.

And I played, you know, in my mind, I don't play it again. Walt Frazier and Earl Monroe and Pistol Pete and Dr. J. All of them. Right.

Yeah. And every, every. It's funny.

You know what I'm saying? Like, it's funny you say that because I say this. Every kid, at least I think most real basketball players have had that moment on the park, in the driveway, somewhere where you hit that, you know what I'm saying, that game winning free throw, you know? And so to me, I'm like, when you get there in that moment, like that should be easy because most of us have practiced that a thousand times. Right.

For that last or that you, you know, you already know that move that you're going to make with four seconds left on the clock because you've done that. You know what I'm saying? In the driveway against somebody who, who, who don't exist. Yes.

Yes. No doubt. 100%.

And I think a lot of people miss the relationship between athletics and imagination and athletics and creation. You know, I remember my mother used to get so mad at me and my best friend who was basically like my brother. My sister married his brother and they were 10 years older than us.

So we grew up from four and five years old and we would take tinfoil balls. We would ball up tinfoil and our kitchen was narrow and there was a back door and a basement door and it was a long narrow kitchen. So we turned the kitchen into a basketball court and we are using the, we use masking tape to put a square in between the top of the door and the ceiling on each door.

And we played full court five on five, even though there's only two of us in the kitchen driving my mama crazy. You can't tell me that doesn't take creativity and imagination to come up with that. So the relationship between youth and sports and art.

So, Frank, growing up, you know, I spent a lot of time in the country. My grandmother lived in a town in South Carolina with about 4000 people, man. And some days we had a milk crate cut out.

Yeah, that we shot baskets on or, you know, we would have this small bicycle rim where we took the spokes out and shoot, you know what I'm saying? Like, and again, we play vividly. I see we play on this, in this Marbury patch next to the railroad track was our basketball court where it was on dirt, red clay dirt. So, yeah.

And that's creativity, right? We know there's no park close by you in the country. We gonna make us a court. And that's what we did.

And it's fascinating because I was just watching a video on Instagram of a young man in Africa, and all of the creative things that this young man made to do the training that he. Oh yeah, I've been watching that guy too. Yes, yes, yes.

Fascinating. So, you've gone on this journey as an educator, as a coach. You talked a little bit about how you use creativity to develop a relationship with your players, taking them out of the city, right? That in and of itself is outside the box thinking, you know, creating an environment where you have that intimacy that doesn't have the distraction of the concrete and the digital, right? What are some other ways that you might have come up with creatively to motivate and inspire your young athletes, both on and off the court? Well, I think one of the things that we did, Frank, is, to be honest with you, you know, I believe in positive motivation.

So we started every day, man, with, you know, some kind of motivational quote. You know, I live by my creed, and I tell people, you know, it was the Patriot Creed, when I was at Holy Angels, it was a Star Creed, when I was at North, it was a Polar Creed. But this is something that I live by that I'll share with you.

I start my day to this day like this every single day. When I get up, I have this thing where I go to the mirror, and I look in the mirror, because I tell everybody, you can fool a whole lot of people, but you won't fool yourself. So I start with this, Frank, that this is the beginning of a new day.

God has blessed me with this day to use as I will. I can waste it or use it for good. For what I do today is important.

I'm exchanging a day of my life for it. I, Larry McKenzie, must decide, good or bad, gain or loss, success or failure, in order that I'll never regret the price that I paid for it. And I told my kids, if y'all ever learn anything else from Coach McKenzie, I want you to learn that, because what that speaks to is that you're responsible for your own life.

Coaches don't decide playing time. You decide your playing time by your effort in life. Teachers don't decide whether you're an A student or F student.

You decide that by the choices that you make. And so, for me, that was a creative peak. One of the things that I learned from Greg Popovich is every single day, you know, so in my program, I kept my JB kids and my varsity kids together.

We practiced as one. We were split off. But I made sure that I had at least 30 seconds of a positive touch with every single kid, every single day.

How's your girlfriend? How was lunch today? You know, you're feeling all right. One of those kinds of things. And so, you know, that was a habit for me.

And so, those are the little things that you can do in terms of being, you know what I'm saying, being different, you know what I'm saying, those kind of things. I mean, I tell people, you know, I mean, I believe in being a student athlete. So, we required, you know what I'm saying, and I would communicate this to our school administrator.

We required all of our kids to sit in the first three rows in the classroom. You know what I'm saying? And a lot of different, that I took, and I got that from past summer. There's a lot of different kinds of things.

But I was always, and even now, even, I mean, I've been retired now. This will be my second year out, right? But always looking for that little thing that's edgy, right? A little bit different about how to approach my guys, things that we can do different than. And like I said, being different is the difference, right? If you're doing what chances are, if you're doing what everybody else is doing, then you got to look at the results of that.

Right. Everybody's, you know, and I like to tell the story, man. One of the things I always said, I was working a basketball camp in the early, the late 90s, and I got an opportunity to talk to B.J. Armstrong.

And I said, B.J., if there's one thing that you can tell me that I can share with my kids, I coached in the inner city program in Minneapolis. Tell me one thing, one simple kind of thing that you learned from Michael Jordan. And he said to me, he said, what we learned that champions are willing to do what nobody else is willing to do.

Right. And to me, that is, that in itself, that's creative, right? Michael Jordan would get up, take those guys to Lake Michigan, and they would run their 10 miles and then go to practice. That's where you heard the Brockridge Club.

It started, right? They were doing something different than the other 30 teams in the league. Right. And so you got to be different.

And to your point, the more creative you can be, the more different you're going to be. Yes, sir. Yes, sir.

Your work goes beyond sports. You know, we've talked a little bit about your work coaching, but what you do leads into youth development. Again, founding the Above the Rim Sports Foundation.

And how do you feel like those techniques and tools that you use with a team, a basketball team, for example, factor into your efforts to engage and empower young people who may not have anything to do with athletics? So I think the thing about it is, Frank, my mission, my ministry has always to be able to create champions in life. Right. Champions in life.

And so I've always said, I mean, we want to create champions in the classroom. We want to create champions in the community. You know what I'm saying? We want to create champions in your family.

And if you are a Hooper, we want to create champions on the hardwood. But it's about being, you know, again, man, it's about being a change agent. Helping our kids learn to dream and then supporting those dreams so that those dreams can come true.

You know what I'm saying? And to me, in that it's about helping people, helping our kids see everyday people like the Larry McKenzie and the Frank Gardners and the Omar McMillans and Danesha Scotts and other people, other coaches that are out here impacting their lives. That you don't have to be a superman or superwoman. That if you can just learn to set some goals, right, that you can, you can.

And my thing of it is, I believe this and I'll say this, that you can find whether it be gaming or writing or whatever, you know, in the words of Dr. Martin Luther King, whatever that thing is that you want to be, that you want to be, let's learn to be the best at it. Let's learn to be the best at it. And so for me, yeah, you know, it is, you know, it's about changing lives in the community.

To your point, you know, not. How do we find what sparks this young, you know what I'm saying, who love music? Yes. You know what I'm saying? How do we, how do we find that thing that sparks that young Frank that loves to write and want to express it, you know, publicly, whether that be poetry or singing, you know what I'm saying? And so what I want to do is have always been, like I say, it's been a mystery for me with the idea of using whatever that thing is for that individual.

To help them become, again, a champion, right? A champion in life, a champion in their family, a champion in their community. And that's been my personal mission. Well, that makes sense, especially in the context of your book, More Than Just a Game.

So, as author, right? Yep, yep, yep. First question simply, how long did it take for you to go from the thought process of I'm going to write this book to actually having it available to the public? What was that process like? If I'm being honest with you, Frank, probably about six, seven years. And I say that to say this is, I was always going to do it, always going to do it, always going to do it.

You know, and then one day I thought about that creed, right? If you think about it, and I use this all the time with kids, if you drive by any cemetery in this city or state, there's a lot of potential land out there. And there's somebody that was going to start a business, somebody that was going to write a book, somebody was going to write a movie, somebody was going to do this or that. You know what I'm saying? So, I came home one night and I said, if I could, you know, if I can go to work and work for somebody else eight hours a day, could I commit to Larry McKenzie, right? One to two hours a night.

And so, when I decided, it took me about six months to finish the book once I made that commitment. And when I did it, Frank, I mean, like no matter what time I came in the house, if I got in at 12, I was going to work to two, you know, write something on the two or research or whatever. But once I got committed to getting the book done, it took me six months.

Okay. I was one of those people, you know, that was going to write a book. You bring up something I think lost in the idea of being a creative is imagination helps you come up with an idea.

Right. Creativity is the act is the discipline of turning that idea right into an actual tangible creation. Right.

And so, um, you And that's a whole nother commitment. Right. Yes, and discipline.

Right. Yes. The discipline so you disciplined yourself is what I'm hearing to say, let me stop imagining this book and create this 100% Yeah, you know what I mean.

I've always talked about I wanted to do it. Had the title in mind, you know, all of that kind of stuff. But, you know, I was for six years out.

It was just like you say, just a thought, just a dream. Yeah. And, and so I'm gonna go back to the basketball court for a second because I want to also play off of that concept of discipline and creativity, because it's one thing to coach youth and to coach urban youth.

It's another thing to win a state championship from a city school. You did it four times in a row. And six times total In six times total.

Yeah. And, and, and going specifically to the, the Patrick Henry high or the school formerly known as Patrick Henry, I guess we got to call it now. Yeah.

For Pete. Did you have any of those youth that maybe were in the varsity rotation at or in the JV varsity gym as a freshman, that was a part of all four of those championships. And with that in mind, how did you creatively motivate right those kids that had done it twice already or three times already to find that edge to keep doing the impossible again.

So, so, couple things. Yes, I had one kid that that did that with me. He happened to be my son.

Yeah, Lawrence McKenzie, who, who we took the four year journey together but but I'll say this. And I'll say is anybody that's listening. Remember this guy.

I would give credit to Tim Duncan, but good better best never take a rest your good can always be better than your best. Right. And the thing about it is that, I mean, you know, Frank.

I read a book when I was 14 years old, my grandmother gave it to me. Oh, they can grow rich by Napoleon's heel Napoleon stone always good but but but but in that book. One of the things that stuck with me was this.

Once you make a million dollars you if you lose it. It's, you don't worry as much because you are, you know how to make a million dollars. Yes, you see what I'm saying.

So once you win a championship. You know what it takes to win a championship. Right.

And so the motivation is, if you love that feeling, and I tell my kids that all the time, right, that last game in the section. If you don't like how that feel. What are you gonna do about it this summer.

Yeah, you see what I'm saying. So, so, so if you and if you love that feeling, you know what it takes to be a champion. Right.

And then now we know we don't want one. Now we know we got a target on our back they coming at us right so we got to work hard. And I was fortunate just to have that kind of group of kids, man.

I mean, it was the, it was the culture. And even now man I've been, you know, the last I've been spending a couple times talking to some old players here. And the thing that we talked about man is that playing games was easy for us.

Because the practices were so competitive right that it was like if you could beat the guy, you know, in the other color jersey, then you wasn't worried about like playing a game was nothing because of what you had gone through in preparation, you know. And so the mindset I go back to what I said that our kids, the kids that I coached at one championship, they understood that champions are willing to do what nobody else is willing to do. So while I may not like it.

Get up at six o'clock in the morning going to get 1500 shots up. I know that's what it takes. And if I want to be a champion.

I'm gonna get up and I'm gonna be there. 6am getting up those shots. I'm gonna get to the weight room.

You know what I'm saying. I'm gonna get my, my work my schoolwork done because if I'm not doing what I need to do academically coach not gonna let me play. You know what I'm saying.

So, yeah, all of that kind of stuff, man. You're also a motivational speaker, and just this conversation is motivating I'm already in my mind I'm like, okay, stop putting off your book Frank discipline yourself and get the book written so I'm already being touched. And so you have a series of webinar or webinar seminars available on the web, or they webinar.

I don't have them on the web and maybe that's something that I need to think about most of my stuff right now I'm doing workshops and keynotes for for organizations, and I would say more. I mean people use the word motivational I would like I like to say I'm inspirational right because, you know, I. So first of all, just my life, you know, as somebody who grew up in a household. With a grandmother who was one of the first female preachers in in South Carolina, that kind of stuff.

And my thing with is inspiring Frank and I'll say this was we've been talking about your book. I want Frank Gardner to look in our conversation in my presentation that is Larry McKenzie him set aside our two hours to do. I can do that too.

So, so I don't want to say motivating. I want to say that that my when I speak. I want to inspire people to take that next step to do that next thing to know that it's that this, this, this guy now with the gray hair, this, this, this elder that is speaking, who started his grew up in, you know, born in in Overtown a historically black community in Miami, who made a move to the James E Scott project, you know saying who didn't have a silver spoon, but have been able to navigate life.

If he can do it. I can do it. Yeah, yeah and and that's that's such a powerful message because it's a living, breathing present testimony of what's possible if you just put your mind to it.

Right. But it requires being a champion requires discipline. Yes, sir.

Right. Being an author requires discipline. Right.

And so it's taking those things. But knowing that I can do it. But, but I always say this also say right success requires sacrifice.

Yes. Success requires sacrifice. So, in order for Frank to write his book he's going to have to give up something.

What is he willing to give up. Yeah, that that is a basketball season. So I'm probably gonna have to give up sleep.

No, I have to go. I want to talk a little bit about the economics of both art and sports. You know, it's, it's, it's no secret that urban schools, often don't have the budgets that some of the private schools or the big suburban schools have.

And you manage to create championship programs with limited financial resources or have to think outside the box to acquire the financial resources and, and in our field on here compass, you know, we're consistently trying to think outside the box and how we can get professional artists into schools for arts education enrichment because as you very well know what goes first when budget cuts come along it's athletics and arts, right. 100% Yeah. The two things that probably motivate our children when I say our children I mean children of color and urban children in general, to be in school.

In a lot of cases, and to, and to see that vision, and to encounter folks like yourself are the things that seems to get cut out of budget so can you tell us a little bit or talk a little bit about how you use that creative gene that creative vibe to kind of overcome some of those barriers and and also what would be your advice to educators and coaches trying to overcome the lack of resources hurdle. So let me, let me say this right so I think oftentimes we spend too much time thinking about and complaining about what we don't have. You know what I'm saying.

And so I just my my approach is I'm not going to be concerned about what I don't have. I'm gonna master. I'm going to take advantage of what I do have, and I always tell everybody man I think about George Washington Carver or Mary McLeod Mathune, you know, you can take a soup can like like I can take, I can take this energy drink can right here, and I can teach English.

I can teach math. I, you know what I'm saying like you ain't gotta have the late, the end goal as an artist and as a coach. And let me say is, but I knew one thing, Frank, I would get people's attention.

And I would get an opportunity to tell my story and people want to invest in the work that I was doing. I would say for you, and the people that are in your world. Maybe you don't start off in school.

It's partnering with after school programs or other kinds of things, because what happened is some of those out of school time programs. There will be teachers working in those programs. Again, goes back to what you're talking about.

You got to think outside the box, right, or that kind of thing but you know but I didn't sit around complaining about, you know what I'm saying, like you just said. We was in a driveway. You know, we didn't have the gym.

I mean, I never played in a gym until I was in high school. You know what I'm saying, but stop me from playing. Yeah.

You see what I'm saying. So, I don't think about, you know, I think we spend too much time and then compare it. Yes.

I'll be honest with me when I look in the suburbs. Yes. You know, I mean, and I was telling my, my cousin the other day when I was showing it right at North High, one and a half courts.

You know, to practice, and then we got to share that with the girls, so I can complain about not having four courts like Hopkins or six courts, like, like they do at East Ridge and that kind of stuff. Or I could use what I got to build a championship program. Yeah.

And the complainer really doesn't do any good you still have to talk about. I mean, it just creates stress and a waste of time. Yes, sir.

Yes, sir. What advice would you give to young leaders, not just coaches but just leaders in community about harnessing, and some of this might seem a little redundant because we've talked about this in the conversation but what advice would you give young leaders about harnessing creativity to overcome challenges in their personal lives, and their professional lives and I think one thing you would probably say is what you just said. Don't worry about what you don't have right focus on what you do but what else would you add to that.

Well, I would tell you whatever wins you get celebrate your wins right into to my point that we started out with this. You know that old saying that we talked about that you probably don't say 1000 times in a few weeks, trust the process. Yeah, trust the process, life, life comes with wins and loss.

I'm saying, learn from the losses, celebrate the wins, but trust the process. And I think one of the things that I did, given the opportunity. Take advantage of opportunities like this and I appreciate you allowing me to to have this opportunity on the forum, you know, the Bible say wisdom and knowledge is more valuable than silver or gold.

You know, I mean, your father and I know you, I knew your father and your mother, you know, the people that you grew up around the Kwame McDonald's and all of those kind of play. Listen to those people. You know what I'm saying, just, just, just take what you can be a sponge, be a sponge.

Learn, learn how to listen and navigate it and to me, you know what I'm saying, maybe, maybe learning something for your elders. It doesn't have to be a winding road. You can straighten out some of those, you know what I'm saying, because of what you've heard or what the experiences I've been, you know what I'm saying, and I think to sometime and I probably when I reflect, I was no different than that as a young man myself.

But don't be in a hurry. Don't be in a hurry. You know what I'm saying, and they say, take what the defense gives you.

Yeah. Don't be in a hurry. You know what I'm saying, you ain't gotta, you know what I'm saying, you ain't got to come down and just shoot a quick three.

Just be patient. Yeah, yeah. And I think that's such a difficult thing to try to instill in young people today because they have so much sensory overload, their endorphins are constantly being activated.

With green time and you know that the short clip highlight world, but it makes me think of when you talked about your book and it kind of going to be in a six year process from, okay, I'm going to actually start doing this to getting it available to the public, you know, Ice Cube, the legendary rapper and producer and celebrity personality Ice Cube once said that if you're not willing to work on something, invest five years in something without ever receiving a dime from it, then you don't really love it. You don't really, you're not really passionate about what you're doing for the sake of that thing itself. You know, and I think that's something that I wish more young people understood, you know, today is that the reward, the return on investment is, if for anything that's truly, that you're truly put your heart and soul in, it's not necessarily going to come overnight, that return.

Success requires sacrifice. Yes, yes. And I know even for our young people that we coach over at Richfield, that is the constant struggle is, you know, everybody wants to score, you know, 2000 points in a career, but not everybody's willing to put in those hours, right? Let me say this, for the people that do score 2000 points in their career, who's going to remember that? Right.

Just them. Right. But if you played on a championship team, and you brought a championship to Richfield, who's going to remember that? Everybody for generations.

Yeah. So what's more important? And, you know, it's unfortunate, like, right, I mean, young people live in a microwave, instant everything society, but in the long run, that's not good for you. Yeah.

Yeah. Elder Mahmoud El-Khati once said to me, he said, you don't want to shoot up. He said, because anything that shoots up comes straight back down.

Correct. He said, what you want to do is just tick, tick, tick, tick, tick. You want to just keep building up.

And then finally, you just coast on a slow and steady ascension. And that's how you keep going. But it goes to how we started when I was talking about my experience.

If I stood on somebody's shoulder, and you stand on my shoulder, and the kids that you coach learn to stand on your shoulder, we're going to get higher and higher, and we're building something. Yes, yes. And just this conversation, we are standing on the shoulders of generations.

Without, as you said, Mahmoud El-Khati, Kwame, I mean, I sit here and I think about the elders that over the time since I've been in Minnesota, who allowed me to stand on their shoulders. I would not be who I am or what I am without a little bit of seasoning from so many people. You know, like I said, Kwame McDonald was one of the first people that was a mentor for me.

The Reverend Arnold Williams, you know, in St. Paul. I mean, just, there's so many people, man, that, you know what I'm saying? And 40 years ago, 50, not who I am today. Yeah, yeah.

You know what I'm saying? And again, man, I just think, and again, I can speak from a political standpoint, but the journey, the journey, right, is more rewarding, man, when you know you planted, that you work the fields, you know what I'm saying, that you till the soil, the weeds, and all of those kinds of things, the journey is just much better, you know what I'm saying, as you get, you know what I'm saying? I can come in and reflect on the mistakes and what I've learned, and that's why I'm here now, not because this is something that I knew, I couldn't have this conversation with you at 21. Yeah. I hadn't done nothing.

We are constantly evolving, aren't we? Every day. And you should be. You should be.

I once heard somebody say, anything that's not growing is dead. Correct. And so we are.

I say, I mean, and if you stop growing, you become the living dead. Yes, yes. And I have no intention on stopping growing and I make sure that I surround myself with both young people who provide fresh fertilizer for me as I move through life and then I surround myself with elders such as yourself, that can sprinkle down wisdom and experience from the skies above.

So I got the young people under my feet, and I got the elders raining down wisdom and experience on me and that's my journey. And it sounds like even yourself, you still maintain that relationship with both the youth and your elders, even as an elder yourself so that you continue growing and we are all better off in the Twin Cities community for it and for your presence, sir. Yeah, well, you know, Frank, when people ask me, say, are you about to retire? Well, didn't you retire? I say, no, I'm evolving, right? I'm working on that next chapter.

And absolutely, man, I think, you know, one of the things that I've learned as a coach, right, being around young people keep you young. So I want to continue to have those relationships. But I also know the value of listening to and sitting at the foot of my elders and how that has helped me become who I am.

I would be remiss if I didn't mention that along with your many other ventures in your semi-retirement, we'll call it. Retirement from the sidelines, but not retirement from the game. Correct, yeah.

You co-founded and were the president of the Minnesota Black Basketball Coaches Association, which I serve on with you. What was a little bit of the motivation behind putting together an organization that created advocacy for Black head coaches and aspiring Black head coaches in basketball in the state of Minnesota? Well, I think one of the things for me, and I'll be honest with you, the moment that I saw the George Floyd video, I said to him, when we start talking about creative, we got to do something different. And, you know, I thought about the Willie Brazils and I thought about the Omar McMillans and others.

And I'm saying, you know what I'm saying? I know these brothers, but I don't really know these brothers. And I'm out here in my own journey, I'm fighting this fight against people around, you know, dealing with the social justice issues that exist for us as basketball coaches. And what happened, Frank, to be honest with you, in my journey, I mean, when you're operating in a silo, people begin to, well, you know, Coach McKenzie is just a troublemaker.

You know what I'm saying? He always out there. But then once we came together as a collective, then it was a little bit different because I wasn't no longer speaking for me. You know what I'm saying? I was speaking for us.

And once people knew that I had an army with me, you know, it became different. And I was at a place in my career, you know, knowing that I was getting close to retirement, with the attitude of what are they going to do to me? But in the meantime, I got to help these young coaches, you know, these male and female. And I'm proud, man.

I was telling somebody, people don't know the work that we've done, the increase in the number of coaches. You know, when I came into the game, you got to remember, Frank, it was only 14 jobs. And I say that, and not all of those was filled by men and women of color.

If you didn't get a job in the St. Paul City Conference or the Minneapolis City Conference, the chance of you being a head coach in basketball was very slim. Now, I don't know who was the first suburb program to hire black coaches, but, you know, we didn't go past Minneapolis and St. Paul. Yeah.

You know what I'm saying? And so that was one of those things. And now look at the when you look at where we are, you know what I'm saying? We're all over the state. We got brothers up in St. Cloud.

We got people in Duluth. We got people, you know what I'm saying, in Rochester. And all of the suburbs.

That was not in the mid 90s, 1990s. That wasn't possible. Yeah.

And in part, I think your success opened people's eyes and made it possible. And I mean, that's what I and that's what the so. So again, man, and I always I think I shared this with you.

My grandmother told me this. She said. Having knowledge.

And not sharing it is like having an atomic bomb and never dropping it's useless. And so for me, part of my personal legacy is to help the people that are coming behind me. I want to be that, you know.

And so starting the MBBCA was an opportunity for me to share some of my journey with other people that are coming behind. Yes. I reached out to Omar and I always say the rest is history.

Yeah. And we appreciate it. I've learned so much from being around you head coaches, including making sure that if I ever decide I want to run a program that I know that that's what I want to do, because it's so much more than just X's and O's.

And, you know, seven o'clock when the ball gets thrown up, that that's from what I've gathered, probably about 10 percent. I thought you were about to use the book, man. It's so much more than just a game.

It's so much more than just the game. So much more than just the game. It's about our time.

I want to repeat that, though, for those listening to Creativity on Tap. The book is called So Much More Than Just a Game. The author is Hall of Fame.

Pick your Hall of Fame. High school, college, Minnesota State basketball coaches. Pick your Hall of Fame.

He's in there. A well-decorated coach, scholar, mentor, educator, creator, doctor, right? Not quite. Not quite.

I knew you were working on it. I couldn't remember. We working on it, but yeah, not quite.

Soon to be doctor, because if I know you, I know that if you started it, you're going to finish it eventually. And Coach Larry McKenzie, thank you so much for joining us. I'm going to ask you if there's one thing that we haven't covered that you want to leave the people with.

If there's an appearance or something that you want to plug, take two minutes. It's your forum. What would you like the people to part with as we wind up? So I want to leave people with this, Frank.

I don't have any upcoming events or anything. But I want to say this, particularly to those artists and people that listen to this, that this is the greatest computer that's ever been invented. And the maker of this computer is a perfectionist.

So one of the things that I conclude is that there's nothing wrong with the hardware. The challenge for most of us is the programming. Right.

And the programmers would tell you protect bad data in, bad data out. Right. Be thoughtful.

Use your elders. Use your expertise. Use the people to make sure that you're getting the right information about things that are important to you.

If you want to be the best, you got to study and learn from the best. I'll tell everybody, Frank. I've read every book by John Wood and I've read every book by Coach K. And so, you know, find and find somebody.

Right. That you can model your success after. Right.

And know that if they can do it, you can do it. That is sound. That is very sound.

And also, I learned from you today that both you and I had one on one battles with Julius Irving. In the driveway in our minds. Iceman, George Gervin.

We all of them. People that you people probably that you don't that you're too young to remember. But you know, my father.

So, yeah, I might not have seen all of them, but I definitely heard stories of all. So, again, thank you for joining us, Coach McKenzie. Appreciate you taking out your time.

I definitely feel inspired to to continue and go on with my day today. You are a gem in our community. And I just want to say I appreciate everything that you do and have done for youth and elders alike in the Twin Cities community.

So thank you for having me. It's been an honor. And I will be looking for you to tell me the date that when that book is coming out.

Yes, sir. Yes, sir. You have been listening to Creativity on Tap.

Creativity on Tap is a series of conversations produced by Compass about the value and importance of creativity. This year, Compass turns 50. That's a half century of putting creativity into the hands of millions of Minnesotans.

We are working really hard to ensure we will be doing this for 50 more years. Creativity on Tap is part of Creativity Saves the World, a yearlong initiative led by Compass to explore the role creativity can and must play in solving the unique challenges of this era. For more information about Compass and how creativity saves the world, please visit compass.org. That's C-O-M-P-A-S dot org.

Thank you.